Some of you may have seen this message before, but I thought it was germain
to what we're trying to do. I think we have a real need for someone
affiliated with this committee to learn all they can about the Adobe PDF
format. I know we all have so much spare time. Yet, it is vital that we
contribute what we can to the knowledge on how to make this thing work for
us.
As with so many other things, the key here is education. My understanding
of the PDF format is that it allows for all the things we need to make
things accessible. Unfortunately, it does not require that those features
which make it accessible be used. So, in the short term, it seems that we
need to make it clear to users of the PDF format that they need to use the
features which make it accessible.
I think the most frustrating aspect of this problem is related to the
previous paragraph. We say we need the language to be complete enough to
allow us to extract the text of the document in a meaningful way.
Proponents of the format tell you that those provisions are already taken
care of. What they don't tell you, of course, is that they are not
essential. Since companies are, by nature, lazy and inclined to do the
minimum necessary to get their main stream product out the door, they'll
cut corners where they can. So, as usual, they'll argue that they have to
get the first version out the door and into the market place and that
they'll worry about the accessibility amendments later. Note that even in
this release announcement, that the HTML generator won't be out in the
initial version of the Adobe/NetScape product. Companies which follow
Net Scape's example, will probably use the first version as a starting
point. thus, the non-HTML producing version of the product will be a
defacto standard.
Anyway, enough with cinacism and on with the task of the hour. I hope
we can make significant contributions to this problem. Any volunteers?
Brian
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>From @uga.cc.uga.edu:owner-blind-l@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU Fri Apr 7 07:44:35 1995
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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:19:51 -0800
Reply-To: Computer Use by and for the Blind <BLIND-L%UAFSYSB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Computer Use by and for the Blind <BLIND-L%UAFSYSB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From: "Gregg C. Vanderheiden" <GCVander@FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Netscape & Adobe PDF
Comments: To: uaccess-l@trace.wisc.edu, BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list BLIND-L <BLIND-L%UAFSYSB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Yes PDF is like postscript in that it is a page description format. Its
broader though and allows for storage of other information (page numbers,
threads - where you can smoothly read off the bottom of an article on page
one and onto page 8 where it is continued.
The concerns have to do with its compatibility with screen readers, and the
fact that many see it as replacing HTML on the WEB because it allows the
publisher to dictate what the page will look like. THis is not good for
people who want to be able to adjust font size etc. to make the pages more
readable. It can also make things harder to render in braille and other
format.
ALso HTML is structure based rather than appearance based. pdf is
appearance based so you can lose structure information when something is
rendered in pdf. Pdf will allow you to store structure information in it
along with appearance, but it does not require it...... thus we may often
not see it.
I am afraid though that pdf may be coming on big time in more ways than
one. We had better figure out how to best make it accessible while we
continue to lobby for HTML as the standard for WEBs. We may lose this one
though for many commercial sites and we dont want to be left behind like we
were with windows.
Regarding your question about text export, it is possible to get text back
out... but not all the information is in text form and when you pull it out
it might not have all the information in a nice block format. You can lay
out text any which way all over the page including circling it around
objects with pdf. Also multiple columns, overlapping text etc. Many
docs may be easy to unload but others may not. This will require careful
examination and thinking.
By the way, GSA is very interested in helping to address this problem - as
are we at trace.
More as I hear more. Anyone with more info or ideas please keep us posted.
Gregg
--------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:59:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark J. Senk WB3CAI
<senkmj@ptbma.usbm.gov> To: wacwimtbb-l@netcom.com
Subject: Does this reduce access by the blind? FWD>Acrobat and Netscape (fwd)
I believe the adobe .pdf format is akin to PostScript and moves the www
away from the ASCII based html. Let's hope that it is possible to export
pages to text.
Information, like love, is worth little until you share it with someone.
Mark Senk (412) 892-6513 ms5@usbm.gov
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Via: Susannah Frishman <susannah@utpress.ppb.utexas.edu>]
John Cook passed on this news release:
Adobe and Netscape to Bring Commercial Publishing to the Internet
Boston, Mass. (March 28, 1995) (NASDAQ: ADBE) -
Adobe Systems Incorporated and Netscape Communications Corporation today
announced joint plans to enable commercial Internet publishing capabilities
that are not possible through currently available products. By integrating
and extending functionality offered by their respective product lines, the
two companies will be able to offer a complete set of technologies that
support secure, electronic transactions across the Internet while also
allowing publishers to author and distribute graphically rich content that
large audiences can access.
As part of the joint plans, the two companies will integrate the Internet
navigation and electronic commerce capabilities provided by Netscape with
the commercial quality authoring and universal document distribution
capabilities provided by Adobe. This will include work to combine
functionality offered by Adobe's Portable Document Format (PDF), an open,
searchable file format that preserves document fidelity across all major
computer platforms and printers, with Netscape's line of Internet software
products. The integration work is designed to allow commercial publishers
who use Adobe software products daily for the production of highly
formatted, printed materials to easily use the same tools to provide
quality content in electronic form on the Internet. In conjunction with
Netscape technology and PDF, publishers will now have a commercial solution
for electronic information distribution in a universal format.
"Adobe technology, such as the PostScript language, provided new ways for
people to create rich printed documents and set new computer industry
standards," said James Clark, Chairman, Netscape Communications. "By
combining Netscape and Adobe technologies, we can bring that same quality
and creative power to on-line information, allowing publishers to leverage
their existing tools and quality standards in a way that perfectly
compliments Internet publishing via HTML."
Many corporations, government agencies and professional publishers,
including J. P. Morgan; Time Life Inc.; the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention; TimesFax, a division of The New York Times Information Services
Group; and Springer Verlag New York Inc., are adopting PDF for Internet
publishing. By integrating Adobe and Netscape technologies, such as
Netscape Publishing System(tm) which manages all aspects of an electronic
publishing house, businesses can make professionally published content more
directly accessible while opening up new business opportunities.
"Our customers have very successfully harnessed the power offered by
desktop publishing tools to expand the publishing industry and create new
expectations for creativity and quality," said John Warnock, Chairman and
CEO, Adobe Systems. "Our relationship with Netscape reflects our commitment
to keep providing tools that enable the publishing industry to expand to
new frontiers."
Roadmap Specifics
The companies disclosed a four step roadmap for delivering a complete suite
of Internet publishing tools.
First, the Macintosh(R) and Windows(tm) versions of Netscape Navigator(tm)
1.1 will support the Acrobat Weblink(tm) software plug-in, a free add-on
application from Adobe that allows Acrobat documents to link to other
documents on the Internet.
The companies will also collaborate on a future version of Netscape
Navigator that will seamlessly view documents in Adobe's Portable Document
Format (PDF), the open, cross-platform file format created by Acrobat
software.
Additional integration efforts will include work on Netscape server
software to provide quick access to PDF documents across the Internet,
allowing users to download portions of PDF files at a time for faster on
screen viewing.
Lastly, Adobe will extend its authoring applications to more fully support
the ability to import and export PDF files and will provide the ability to
output to Hypertext Markup Language (HTML) in a future version of Adobe
PageMaker(tm).
The announcement has generated positive reactions from the publishing
community. "We have been working closely with both Netscape and Adobe to
achieve our charter of developing innovative new media information
products," said Stephen Lake, Senior Vice President, Reuters New Media.
"The flexibility and security of the Netscape Worldwide Web publishing
platform and the richness of new media content we can create through
Acrobat allows us to create new products such as the Reuters
Photojournalism Magazine. The ability to download portions of a PDF file
across the Web will allow us to create even richer documents."
"The fact that Netscape and Adobe are coordinating development activity is
truly exciting," said Mr. Robert D. Ingle, Vice President/New Media for
Knight-Ridder. "Like many publishers, Knight-Ridder has been active in
exploring information dissemination via the Internet. However, to date,
we've been missing both control over formatting and a commercially viable
way to distribute that information. The combination of Adobe and Netscape
gives us the full suite of tools to move our efforts from exploration to
commercial deployment."
"We chose Acrobat because TimesFax is a branded product, and it was
essential to provide context in addition to content, preserving the look
and feel complete with the typefaces used in the New York Times", said
Patricia Ecke, Publisher, TimesFax. "Producing it in HTML just didn't give
us that capability. The announcement between Adobe and Netscape reinforces
our decision to use PDF, and gives us additional tools to take further
advantage of the World Wide Web publishing opportunity". The TimesFax World
Wide Web edition is an eight-page digest of news from the New York Times
that is made available in PDF format via the World Wide Web.
Netscape Communications Corporation is a premier provider of open software
to enable people and companies to exchange information and conduct commerce
over the Internet and other global networks. The company was founded in
April 1994 by Dr. James H. Clark, founder of Silicon Graphics, Inc., a
Fortune 500 computer systems company; and Marc Andreessen, creator of the
NCSA Mosaic(tm) research prototype for the Internet. Privately held,
Netscape Communications Corporation is based in Mountain View, California.
Adobe Systems Incorporated, founded in 1982, is headquartered in Mountain
View, California. Adobe develops, markets and supports computer software
products and technologies that enable users to create, display, print and
communicate electronic documents. The company licenses its technology to
major computer and publishing suppliers, and markets a line of powerful,
but easy to use products for home and small business users. Adobe has
subsidiaries in Europe, Asia and the Pacific Rim serving a worldwide
network of dealers and distributors. Adobe's 1994 revenue was approximately
$598 million. ###
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Gregg C. Vanderheiden Ph.D.
Trace R&D Center
Waisman Center and Dept of Industrial Engr.
University of Wisconsin - Madison 53705
gcvander@FacStaff.Wisc.Edu , FAX 608 232-8848
FTP,Gopher and WWW servers at trace.wisc.edu
For list of our listserve discussions send "index" to listproc@trace.wisc.edu
--- End of forwarded message from Computer Use by and for the Blind <BLIND-L%UAFSYSB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
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